communicating with strangers is a muscele we all need to practice and build. there are no third spaces without us pushing beyond our comfort zone (digital spaces). i've absolutely fumbled so hard talking to new people, but that's part of building community.
I totally agree! I like to think every conversational flop i’ve had helps me strengthen that muscle and gets me one step closer 😂 also, thank you so much! I try never to listen back so 💀😂
I work in a library—an actual, real-life third space! But people so often want us to “do something” about other people who are bothering them. I’m not talking about harassment or creepy staring (though that happens too), but just annoying behavior. People assume there’s a higher power everywhere to police other people.
I love that my library has a “teen room” where they can hang out in a safe space without adults but also be loud. I teach high school and the availability of places for teens to safely hang out is so small. How do you like working at a library?
Thanks for saying this! I think this is a really important component -- reading this piece, I found myself totally agreeing Anna, and also thinking, okay but so many times "talking to strangers" means some guy being weird or overly aggressive, but not necessarily rising to the level of harassment. This comment is a good reminder that strengthening the muscle of talking to strangers also probably means strengthening the muscle of telling strangers when they're overstepping, and/or learning to politely and pleasantly say, "hey can you stop?" These are also skills needed for building community, and doubly so if you want to remove policing from those communities. Definitely something important to keep in mind~
i really liked this, when i first started to see the "there are no 3rd spaces" discourse something about it did not feel quite right, like a key detail was being left out. while yes, things are increasingly expensive and that presents an issue when you want to hangout somewhere like a coffeeshop where you often need to purchase something in order to stay, and proximity is definitely an issue especially for those who don't have a car or an easy and cheap public transportation system, i don't think people are socializing with strangers in public places even when they can access them. Whether it's a coffeeshop, the public pool, a public park, weekly trivia night at the bar, or sports bars where everyone is there literally all watching the same thing together, nobody goes out of their way to speak with strangers!!!! if you want a public space where you go and meet new people and socialize with strangers then you have to start socializing with strangers in public spaces!!!! when i hear people talk about the lack of third spaces it always makes me wonder, if you did have a place that was very affordable to hangout, and was in walking distance of your home, how many conversations would you be initiating with strangers? And when you are in public spaces, even if they technically don't count as third spaces, how are you conducting yourself? are you speaking with strangers? putting yourself out there? when strangers try to talk to you, do you meaningfully engage? or do you kind of smile and nod and wait for them to leave? the third spaces you want need enthusiastically social people in order to form!!
Totally feeeeeel all of this! Some of the comments on tiktok id see were exactly this sentiment, that even when things feel convenient and local sometimes people still dont show. Which feels like the fear of socializing outside our norms, which then perpetuates the whole thing, lol
It’s also perpetuating more of the terminally online black and white thinking too, to just drop an all-or-nothing statement: “there are NO third spaces.”
Finding them is more challenging now, yes, and forcing yourself to socialize with people out in them is ALSO more challenging now too.
I’ve had great luck with community gardens as free and affordable third spaces. I’ve also had great luck with meeting new people at outdoor events, like local drag nights or movie nights or trivia nights.
I’m a little sad that many places to make friends as adults COST MONEY, I’m even part of a community pottery studio. Pottery studios are expensive!!
But I feel like meeting people organically on the bus or in the park or in the library is a little extra challenging. Buses are fleeting, the park gets cold in the winter. The library is too quiet.
So I reframe it as “I pay for this pottery studio space so I have a dedicated third place to work on my hobby, but also a dedicated third place to make a ton of new adult friends that have a shared interest with me!”
For Pete’s sake, my best friend at the pottery studio isn’t some other 30 year old trans person there, she’s a 50 year old nurse with a daughter and a great big dog. We’re quite literally besties, and we met because we just happened to be glazing our pieces together. I begged her to let me have my 31st birthday party in her backyard! I could sing praises to third spaces even with the added grain of salt that “yeah in late stage capitalism, you do kinda have to pay for the really good ones, and that sucks” but it’s still more nuanced than “THERE ARE NONE LEFT!!!! ZERO!!!!!! “”😭😭😭”””
thank you for articulating something that I've been feeling so much lately, a great example being at concerts. When you're at a concert, you have a BUILT-IN thing in common: you all love or are at least interested in the musical act you're going to see. but no one talks to people other than the people they came with! it's so wild to see all these tiny little groups avoiding eye contact with everyone else. i traveled to New Orleans for the Eras Tour and the entire downtown area and french quarter was CRAWLING with tens of thousands of swifties and there was so little engagement, it felt almost creepy. on the way home, i sat down on the plane next to what i think was a mom and her teenage daughter and i said "did you guys see taylor?" and the mom said in a sarcastic tone "didn't everyone on this plane?" it literally shook me so i didn't say anything else the whole flight
I think the problem there is a) the age group b) it's so mainstream that while people identify strongly as Swift fans, it's like...being a pumpkin spice fan or something. No offense, nothing wrong with liking either thing. But for example, metal fans seem to have a sense of camaraderie that general appeal pop idol fans don't, with some exceptions. They see themselves as outsiders. Juggalos, Deadheads are some other examples, they are more distinct subcultures. Gen Z has "aesthetics" of people sharing mood boards not subcultures.
There's a book on urban design that I wish I could remember the title of, but it talked about "planning for serendipity". The basic idea being that after bumping into someone casually repeatedly, it becomes much easier to strike up a conversation and move from stranger to acquaintance. A lot of places aren't designed for this to happen, either because people are so transient and you see different employees/people come and go, or because the spaces themselves aren't pedestrian accessible so people drive up, walk in, and grab their to-go order with minimal interaction.
Not to negate your point, I think people do need to talk to strangers. I also think the design of spaces and commerce plays a huge part in it and there are several layers from city planning to transit to commerce. Plus capitalism wants to remove all friction from purchasing so folks spend more time doing it, which seems to include human interaction
Just popping in to say... it's definitely not just in America where politics is very polarized. It's in the spotlight because you guys are big (and take up most of the oxygen?) but in other countries it's definitely the case to. I'm just... stopping myself from going on a discursive rant about Philippine political discourse—it's six in the morning!
Ha, I was looking forward to your post since I saw someone restack your teaser! I’ve been thinking of writing on the subject from a Filipino (urban) perspective myself.
I’m glad to hear the POV of a non- American. I live in the American South where talking to strangers in public is not seen as a weird thing and it still happens way less than normal.
It's kind of a mixture in the midwest, we are culturally like the south somewhat in the small town feel even if you're in a bigger city. and "we will feed you whether you like it or not" but Minnesota has the MN Nice/insular tribalism thing. If you have the small town types mixed in with other people then it evens things out more.
I enjoyed this train of thought. When I first came across the concept of a "third space", I thought that it was great (more parks, right?), until I heard how people talked about them. Then it felt a little strange. Personally, I don't like talking with others or making friends, but I do feel a nice kinship in sharing spaces without plans. I think that, with the topic of third spaces, people are expressing the desire to have a situation where it is not necessary to be an employee or a customer or a "VIP" all the time, but to simply be a person. Liberation, I guess. The emphasis on strengthening community/socialization through third spaces is not very helpful in my opinion. Those are more like possible outcomes than a cause for action.
There are way more things in the way of forming healthy socialization habits than a place that people want. You gathered a lot of helpful points in relation. Hopefully, this conversation will turn into something wider and more concrete.
I so appreciate hearing this POV! I also think theres something good for us in hanging in communal spaces singularly as well— it feels like “socializing” when you may not actually feel like socializing haha
Maybe the concept of a third space should be shifted from a place of conversation to a place of community. Where you can go and know that others are like minded without the added pressure to have a conversation. The conversation comes afterwards once people start to occupy the space. Or know they’re safe. My problem with this idea of communicating with community members is that as a young woman, that was often exploited by older men with ulterior motives. That may not be everyone’s experience but it is part of what made areas like that less enticing
when someone mentioned a pottery studio earlier I was just thinking of how so many artists/musicians are introverts, and want to focus on their own thing, and only get comments/conversation when they are in the right headspace for it, but I know many enjoy doing it alongside other people. "Parallel play" as it were. Crafters, like knitters often like to craft along with conversation. For third spaces to work you also need to balance out what different people need, and that also means having choices of spaces or perhaps times/rooms set aside for more or less interaction. People often talk about meeting others at the gym but I've rarely encountered anyone that wanted to chat at the gym. Especially with all the headphones.
totally agree with you both! I just wrote a piece on how we need to step up our urban planning agenda and create more third spaces for communities. hopefully we can continue this important conversation - i just wrote a piece on it :)
I loved this piece and share a lot of similar sentiments. The keys to keep in mind here are consistency, cooperation, and curiosity. Consistency is necessary to build community. So we can start with a monthly appointment to build that muscle or just start showing up to the same place over and over. Cooperation requires us to see each other as part of the same team. A great way to make a friend is to offer your assistance. Curiosity allows us to exit the confines of our own internal dialogue and explore the other. These are three skills that can be built over time and I promise they pay dividends. As public spaces disappear, we can get creative on how to flex these skills to utilize existing spaces to build community. As you stated, black and white thinking isn’t going to work. It’s the most useful place to start. I love how third spaces even prompts you to look for a third option..
Really like the structure you've created here, keeps it tangible and actionable. Which makes it overall easier to keep in the forefront as we look to build these communities!
Thank you! The biggest challenge I find in all spaces is trying to create clear and actionable understandings of solutions to complex problems. Appreciate the convo and here's to hoping we successfully move towards the next frontier in connection!
I really enjoyed this! This has been on my mind a lot when it comes to building community, it’s so easy to say you want community but the reality is acknowledging you’re not going to like everyone you’re in community with, and that doesn’t inherently take away from the experience at all. Also as someone who works in hospitality, genuinely so much of my ability to talk to strangers comes from my literal job! I don’t know where I would be socially without it, I’m a lot more chill with making social faux pas and moving on/learning now bc it’s impossible not to upset anyone in hospo 😅
this is such a good perspective to hear from someone who talks to unique/different people every day! Speaking with strangers really is such a muscle that has to be worked out, haaaa.
Your last couple of sentences - I was just thinking this! Not in hospitality, but in medicine - I am surrounded by people all day and interacting with strangers who are often going through something terrible. I appreciate the human interaction and missed it in past jobs (ex. research) that were less social. I appreciate interacting with others when I'm out and about, even if it doesn't really turn into anything more substantial - and at the root of it is a basic level of kindness/decency to others and shared experiences or interests.
YES to this piece. I have been thinking about this a lot due to all the content being shared about “building a community.” Being in a community can actually be quite taxing because you have to show up for others when you maybe aren’t 100%. You can’t be continually shutting yourself off “protecting your peace” and then expect the community to show up for you. Not how it works. Of course there’s a balance, a messy one. But it is worth it when you have the ability to help and be helped.
I’m a socially awkward person so it’s always an effort to interact with strangers but I do make the effort. If a person is working and doesn’t reciprocate my friendly effort I don’t take it personally, but if they do it always feels really nice and honestly can make my day. A little kindness really goes a long way. I find this especially true when grieving. Simple acts such as smiling or saying something nice feels far greater to me than before. I’m also more sensitive to the fact that you never know what someone is going through, on many levels, and that’s why I try not to judge perceived unfriendliness too harshly. As for third spaces, I wish there were more and read someone who recently advocated for third spaces to also be child friendly (I wish I could remember who said this and credit their idea). When I was a young mom those types of spaces were life saving, and many of them aren’t around anymore. My neighborhood has more coffee shops now but they are smaller and usually full of people working. Sometimes you can’t even find a free table to sit at. The bigger one we had, with a kid’s area, with books and toys, closed just recently. People complained it was too expensive, but I think their prices were the same as other coffee shops, but they didn’t have the Instagram aesthetic people expect now. Our local library recently reopened after a remodel, but it feels like not as many people go there. I feel like I don’t see kids out as much anymore and now that my kids are grown, I always enjoy seeing little ones around.
Wow third spaces are actually great for grief for me as well. I’ve felt the need to for connection without wanting to get into the discourse of “how I feel” that people I know may try to get me to engage in when they offer sympathy. Friendly strangers in public make me feel connected and grounded in a way that is nice. It’s quick and low-stakes engagement, which makes it extremely helpful
The dog park is my third space loll and your line about the “it will not court you” is so true. You have to make the move to engage with it even though it’s so intimidating when you’re a new dog owner. But once you do, you do become part of that community!
Appreciate the pandemic callout. On the board of a a high school and the staff talked about the cohort that missed a social step by not being freshman in a building with juniors. They remained middle schoolers because they didn’t receive peer mentorship and consequently struggled with offering mentorship.
What kicked off my interest was Being 13, Time Magazine issue (2005). Several articles breaking down the psychological development that schools and families nurture or upend. The school I work with in Hell’s Kitchen is remarkably like my high school in Dayton, OH.
Love this, thank you! And it makes me so thankful for my local library. They do such a wonderful job of ticking off all the boxes of what makes a third space a third space. And I have kids, so the kids section of the library is teaching my kids the ins and outs of actual socialization. I think there is hope for my very young Gen Alpha kids if we continue to instill the “breath of fresh air” values that a third space can provide. My daughter has a friend at the library. She ONLY knows him from the library. I don’t know anything else about this kid, but he’s so friendly, and every time she sees him there she says hello and sometimes will play with him while there. She knows it’s her friend Max “from the library” and I love that. There’s hope. :)
As a librarian, I really appreciate the support for public libraries. We make a concerted effort to make everyone feel welcome. On Tuesday, I witnessed a conversation between an older woman and a 30-something. They just started chatting in the stacks and trading book recommendations. It was delightful to witness and gave me hope.
Thanks for what you do every day! We went to the library again today. The kids each got a huge stack of books, and my youngest looked at a display case filled with “Staff Stuffies,” a collection of some librarians’ cherished stuffed animals. Then we signed up for a Stuffie Sleepover at the library next weekend. Kids come in their pajamas, and leave their stuffies overnight to spend the night in the library! The librarians will take photos of the stuffies having fun and share them with us when we pick them up the next day. How fun is that? Only at a library. 🥰
this is so real. i've even had to check myself with this kind of thinking. it's lazy to think that you deserve a third space without being someone who participates in community (i'm calling myself out on that one). i'm working on building a community and a village, but it just takes time, consistent effort, and a deep kindness and love for other humans.
I think listing what the first (home) and second (work) places are really helps to contextualize and understand what a third place needs to be.
So... yes, a local butcher shop (post war vibe) was a third space, but Starbucks might not be. It could be if you are served by the same barista every day and you continue a soupcon of conversation with them, but otherwise no.
I have written frequently about the importance of run clubs as third spaces. They both "get you out of the house" and are that "wind down after work."
That's what I understand to be the importance of third places, anyway.
I feel like people have also been influenced by celebrity culture to the point that when they say they “a village”, what they actually want is a live-in nanny. Economic hardship has pushed people to the far extreme that they don’t want a little bit of relief; they’re downright exhausted and want to give it all up.
I also think a lot of the wannabe tradwives actually want someone else to do the boring grunt work like dishes & diaper changing while they decorate pastries & make cute kids' crafts. I want to share chores/cooking with several other people, it's such a bother for just me & one other person. You shouldn't need to be in a nuclear family to have that.
A nuclear family wouldn’t have that anyway, either, since by definition a nuclear family is just 2 parents. What it sounds like you’re thinking of is communal living or at least neighborhoods or villages. No?
communicating with strangers is a muscele we all need to practice and build. there are no third spaces without us pushing beyond our comfort zone (digital spaces). i've absolutely fumbled so hard talking to new people, but that's part of building community.
also, i love your voice!
I totally agree! I like to think every conversational flop i’ve had helps me strengthen that muscle and gets me one step closer 😂 also, thank you so much! I try never to listen back so 💀😂
I work in a library—an actual, real-life third space! But people so often want us to “do something” about other people who are bothering them. I’m not talking about harassment or creepy staring (though that happens too), but just annoying behavior. People assume there’s a higher power everywhere to police other people.
I love that my library has a “teen room” where they can hang out in a safe space without adults but also be loud. I teach high school and the availability of places for teens to safely hang out is so small. How do you like working at a library?
Thanks for saying this! I think this is a really important component -- reading this piece, I found myself totally agreeing Anna, and also thinking, okay but so many times "talking to strangers" means some guy being weird or overly aggressive, but not necessarily rising to the level of harassment. This comment is a good reminder that strengthening the muscle of talking to strangers also probably means strengthening the muscle of telling strangers when they're overstepping, and/or learning to politely and pleasantly say, "hey can you stop?" These are also skills needed for building community, and doubly so if you want to remove policing from those communities. Definitely something important to keep in mind~
i really liked this, when i first started to see the "there are no 3rd spaces" discourse something about it did not feel quite right, like a key detail was being left out. while yes, things are increasingly expensive and that presents an issue when you want to hangout somewhere like a coffeeshop where you often need to purchase something in order to stay, and proximity is definitely an issue especially for those who don't have a car or an easy and cheap public transportation system, i don't think people are socializing with strangers in public places even when they can access them. Whether it's a coffeeshop, the public pool, a public park, weekly trivia night at the bar, or sports bars where everyone is there literally all watching the same thing together, nobody goes out of their way to speak with strangers!!!! if you want a public space where you go and meet new people and socialize with strangers then you have to start socializing with strangers in public spaces!!!! when i hear people talk about the lack of third spaces it always makes me wonder, if you did have a place that was very affordable to hangout, and was in walking distance of your home, how many conversations would you be initiating with strangers? And when you are in public spaces, even if they technically don't count as third spaces, how are you conducting yourself? are you speaking with strangers? putting yourself out there? when strangers try to talk to you, do you meaningfully engage? or do you kind of smile and nod and wait for them to leave? the third spaces you want need enthusiastically social people in order to form!!
Totally feeeeeel all of this! Some of the comments on tiktok id see were exactly this sentiment, that even when things feel convenient and local sometimes people still dont show. Which feels like the fear of socializing outside our norms, which then perpetuates the whole thing, lol
It’s also perpetuating more of the terminally online black and white thinking too, to just drop an all-or-nothing statement: “there are NO third spaces.”
Finding them is more challenging now, yes, and forcing yourself to socialize with people out in them is ALSO more challenging now too.
I’ve had great luck with community gardens as free and affordable third spaces. I’ve also had great luck with meeting new people at outdoor events, like local drag nights or movie nights or trivia nights.
I’m a little sad that many places to make friends as adults COST MONEY, I’m even part of a community pottery studio. Pottery studios are expensive!!
But I feel like meeting people organically on the bus or in the park or in the library is a little extra challenging. Buses are fleeting, the park gets cold in the winter. The library is too quiet.
So I reframe it as “I pay for this pottery studio space so I have a dedicated third place to work on my hobby, but also a dedicated third place to make a ton of new adult friends that have a shared interest with me!”
For Pete’s sake, my best friend at the pottery studio isn’t some other 30 year old trans person there, she’s a 50 year old nurse with a daughter and a great big dog. We’re quite literally besties, and we met because we just happened to be glazing our pieces together. I begged her to let me have my 31st birthday party in her backyard! I could sing praises to third spaces even with the added grain of salt that “yeah in late stage capitalism, you do kinda have to pay for the really good ones, and that sucks” but it’s still more nuanced than “THERE ARE NONE LEFT!!!! ZERO!!!!!! “”😭😭😭”””
thank you for articulating something that I've been feeling so much lately, a great example being at concerts. When you're at a concert, you have a BUILT-IN thing in common: you all love or are at least interested in the musical act you're going to see. but no one talks to people other than the people they came with! it's so wild to see all these tiny little groups avoiding eye contact with everyone else. i traveled to New Orleans for the Eras Tour and the entire downtown area and french quarter was CRAWLING with tens of thousands of swifties and there was so little engagement, it felt almost creepy. on the way home, i sat down on the plane next to what i think was a mom and her teenage daughter and i said "did you guys see taylor?" and the mom said in a sarcastic tone "didn't everyone on this plane?" it literally shook me so i didn't say anything else the whole flight
I think the problem there is a) the age group b) it's so mainstream that while people identify strongly as Swift fans, it's like...being a pumpkin spice fan or something. No offense, nothing wrong with liking either thing. But for example, metal fans seem to have a sense of camaraderie that general appeal pop idol fans don't, with some exceptions. They see themselves as outsiders. Juggalos, Deadheads are some other examples, they are more distinct subcultures. Gen Z has "aesthetics" of people sharing mood boards not subcultures.
There's a book on urban design that I wish I could remember the title of, but it talked about "planning for serendipity". The basic idea being that after bumping into someone casually repeatedly, it becomes much easier to strike up a conversation and move from stranger to acquaintance. A lot of places aren't designed for this to happen, either because people are so transient and you see different employees/people come and go, or because the spaces themselves aren't pedestrian accessible so people drive up, walk in, and grab their to-go order with minimal interaction.
Not to negate your point, I think people do need to talk to strangers. I also think the design of spaces and commerce plays a huge part in it and there are several layers from city planning to transit to commerce. Plus capitalism wants to remove all friction from purchasing so folks spend more time doing it, which seems to include human interaction
Just popping in to say... it's definitely not just in America where politics is very polarized. It's in the spotlight because you guys are big (and take up most of the oxygen?) but in other countries it's definitely the case to. I'm just... stopping myself from going on a discursive rant about Philippine political discourse—it's six in the morning!
Oh totally! Youre so right, this is a completely global problem!! I appreciate you reading and giving your POVE- especially so early 😮💨
Ha, I was looking forward to your post since I saw someone restack your teaser! I’ve been thinking of writing on the subject from a Filipino (urban) perspective myself.
Thank you so much! And wow, i’d love to read it if you did!!
Ha, might take a while! It still hasn't come together! But I'll let you know!
I’m glad to hear the POV of a non- American. I live in the American South where talking to strangers in public is not seen as a weird thing and it still happens way less than normal.
It's kind of a mixture in the midwest, we are culturally like the south somewhat in the small town feel even if you're in a bigger city. and "we will feed you whether you like it or not" but Minnesota has the MN Nice/insular tribalism thing. If you have the small town types mixed in with other people then it evens things out more.
Minnesota is on our list of possible places to move , nice to hear it wouldn’t be a total culture shock for me if we move out of the South :)
I enjoyed this train of thought. When I first came across the concept of a "third space", I thought that it was great (more parks, right?), until I heard how people talked about them. Then it felt a little strange. Personally, I don't like talking with others or making friends, but I do feel a nice kinship in sharing spaces without plans. I think that, with the topic of third spaces, people are expressing the desire to have a situation where it is not necessary to be an employee or a customer or a "VIP" all the time, but to simply be a person. Liberation, I guess. The emphasis on strengthening community/socialization through third spaces is not very helpful in my opinion. Those are more like possible outcomes than a cause for action.
There are way more things in the way of forming healthy socialization habits than a place that people want. You gathered a lot of helpful points in relation. Hopefully, this conversation will turn into something wider and more concrete.
I so appreciate hearing this POV! I also think theres something good for us in hanging in communal spaces singularly as well— it feels like “socializing” when you may not actually feel like socializing haha
Maybe the concept of a third space should be shifted from a place of conversation to a place of community. Where you can go and know that others are like minded without the added pressure to have a conversation. The conversation comes afterwards once people start to occupy the space. Or know they’re safe. My problem with this idea of communicating with community members is that as a young woman, that was often exploited by older men with ulterior motives. That may not be everyone’s experience but it is part of what made areas like that less enticing
when someone mentioned a pottery studio earlier I was just thinking of how so many artists/musicians are introverts, and want to focus on their own thing, and only get comments/conversation when they are in the right headspace for it, but I know many enjoy doing it alongside other people. "Parallel play" as it were. Crafters, like knitters often like to craft along with conversation. For third spaces to work you also need to balance out what different people need, and that also means having choices of spaces or perhaps times/rooms set aside for more or less interaction. People often talk about meeting others at the gym but I've rarely encountered anyone that wanted to chat at the gym. Especially with all the headphones.
totally agree with you both! I just wrote a piece on how we need to step up our urban planning agenda and create more third spaces for communities. hopefully we can continue this important conversation - i just wrote a piece on it :)
https://open.substack.com/pub/betweenspaces/p/designing-my-third-space?r=1isvh0&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
I loved this piece and share a lot of similar sentiments. The keys to keep in mind here are consistency, cooperation, and curiosity. Consistency is necessary to build community. So we can start with a monthly appointment to build that muscle or just start showing up to the same place over and over. Cooperation requires us to see each other as part of the same team. A great way to make a friend is to offer your assistance. Curiosity allows us to exit the confines of our own internal dialogue and explore the other. These are three skills that can be built over time and I promise they pay dividends. As public spaces disappear, we can get creative on how to flex these skills to utilize existing spaces to build community. As you stated, black and white thinking isn’t going to work. It’s the most useful place to start. I love how third spaces even prompts you to look for a third option..
Really like the structure you've created here, keeps it tangible and actionable. Which makes it overall easier to keep in the forefront as we look to build these communities!
Thank you! The biggest challenge I find in all spaces is trying to create clear and actionable understandings of solutions to complex problems. Appreciate the convo and here's to hoping we successfully move towards the next frontier in connection!
I really enjoyed this! This has been on my mind a lot when it comes to building community, it’s so easy to say you want community but the reality is acknowledging you’re not going to like everyone you’re in community with, and that doesn’t inherently take away from the experience at all. Also as someone who works in hospitality, genuinely so much of my ability to talk to strangers comes from my literal job! I don’t know where I would be socially without it, I’m a lot more chill with making social faux pas and moving on/learning now bc it’s impossible not to upset anyone in hospo 😅
this is such a good perspective to hear from someone who talks to unique/different people every day! Speaking with strangers really is such a muscle that has to be worked out, haaaa.
Your last couple of sentences - I was just thinking this! Not in hospitality, but in medicine - I am surrounded by people all day and interacting with strangers who are often going through something terrible. I appreciate the human interaction and missed it in past jobs (ex. research) that were less social. I appreciate interacting with others when I'm out and about, even if it doesn't really turn into anything more substantial - and at the root of it is a basic level of kindness/decency to others and shared experiences or interests.
YES to this piece. I have been thinking about this a lot due to all the content being shared about “building a community.” Being in a community can actually be quite taxing because you have to show up for others when you maybe aren’t 100%. You can’t be continually shutting yourself off “protecting your peace” and then expect the community to show up for you. Not how it works. Of course there’s a balance, a messy one. But it is worth it when you have the ability to help and be helped.
Absolutely agree. Sometimes it's just showing up, even if its 50% and that can still be so fruitful/powerful!
I’m a socially awkward person so it’s always an effort to interact with strangers but I do make the effort. If a person is working and doesn’t reciprocate my friendly effort I don’t take it personally, but if they do it always feels really nice and honestly can make my day. A little kindness really goes a long way. I find this especially true when grieving. Simple acts such as smiling or saying something nice feels far greater to me than before. I’m also more sensitive to the fact that you never know what someone is going through, on many levels, and that’s why I try not to judge perceived unfriendliness too harshly. As for third spaces, I wish there were more and read someone who recently advocated for third spaces to also be child friendly (I wish I could remember who said this and credit their idea). When I was a young mom those types of spaces were life saving, and many of them aren’t around anymore. My neighborhood has more coffee shops now but they are smaller and usually full of people working. Sometimes you can’t even find a free table to sit at. The bigger one we had, with a kid’s area, with books and toys, closed just recently. People complained it was too expensive, but I think their prices were the same as other coffee shops, but they didn’t have the Instagram aesthetic people expect now. Our local library recently reopened after a remodel, but it feels like not as many people go there. I feel like I don’t see kids out as much anymore and now that my kids are grown, I always enjoy seeing little ones around.
Wow third spaces are actually great for grief for me as well. I’ve felt the need to for connection without wanting to get into the discourse of “how I feel” that people I know may try to get me to engage in when they offer sympathy. Friendly strangers in public make me feel connected and grounded in a way that is nice. It’s quick and low-stakes engagement, which makes it extremely helpful
The dog park is my third space loll and your line about the “it will not court you” is so true. You have to make the move to engage with it even though it’s so intimidating when you’re a new dog owner. But once you do, you do become part of that community!
Appreciate the pandemic callout. On the board of a a high school and the staff talked about the cohort that missed a social step by not being freshman in a building with juniors. They remained middle schoolers because they didn’t receive peer mentorship and consequently struggled with offering mentorship.
I would love to talk about this more! I feel like that kind of social mentorship is a huge part of this
What kicked off my interest was Being 13, Time Magazine issue (2005). Several articles breaking down the psychological development that schools and families nurture or upend. The school I work with in Hell’s Kitchen is remarkably like my high school in Dayton, OH.
I’m from Dayton! Went to high school there. I’ll hunt down that piece!!
Dayton represent!!
was brought here by a link in anne helen petersen’s newsletter. this is so excellent!
Wait! I love her newsletter and podcast, I was linked in it?! Also thank you so much for reading!!! 😭
yes, today’s!! https://open.substack.com/pub/annehelen/p/a-calming-low-winter-sky-of-links?r=2xuai&utm_medium=ios
Oh my god!!! Thank you for sending me this lol!!
Love this, thank you! And it makes me so thankful for my local library. They do such a wonderful job of ticking off all the boxes of what makes a third space a third space. And I have kids, so the kids section of the library is teaching my kids the ins and outs of actual socialization. I think there is hope for my very young Gen Alpha kids if we continue to instill the “breath of fresh air” values that a third space can provide. My daughter has a friend at the library. She ONLY knows him from the library. I don’t know anything else about this kid, but he’s so friendly, and every time she sees him there she says hello and sometimes will play with him while there. She knows it’s her friend Max “from the library” and I love that. There’s hope. :)
This comment thread inspired me to sign up for some volunteer opportunities at my local branch— thanks guys! Lol
I LOVE hearing about how helpful the library is in this area, its truly one of the few truly wholesome and helpful institutions we have left!!
Hard agree! 🥰
As a librarian, I really appreciate the support for public libraries. We make a concerted effort to make everyone feel welcome. On Tuesday, I witnessed a conversation between an older woman and a 30-something. They just started chatting in the stacks and trading book recommendations. It was delightful to witness and gave me hope.
Thanks for what you do every day! We went to the library again today. The kids each got a huge stack of books, and my youngest looked at a display case filled with “Staff Stuffies,” a collection of some librarians’ cherished stuffed animals. Then we signed up for a Stuffie Sleepover at the library next weekend. Kids come in their pajamas, and leave their stuffies overnight to spend the night in the library! The librarians will take photos of the stuffies having fun and share them with us when we pick them up the next day. How fun is that? Only at a library. 🥰
this is so real. i've even had to check myself with this kind of thinking. it's lazy to think that you deserve a third space without being someone who participates in community (i'm calling myself out on that one). i'm working on building a community and a village, but it just takes time, consistent effort, and a deep kindness and love for other humans.
I feel the same way, I know that I have to put in a bit more work to really exercise this muscle more.
I think listing what the first (home) and second (work) places are really helps to contextualize and understand what a third place needs to be.
So... yes, a local butcher shop (post war vibe) was a third space, but Starbucks might not be. It could be if you are served by the same barista every day and you continue a soupcon of conversation with them, but otherwise no.
I have written frequently about the importance of run clubs as third spaces. They both "get you out of the house" and are that "wind down after work."
That's what I understand to be the importance of third places, anyway.
I feel like people have also been influenced by celebrity culture to the point that when they say they “a village”, what they actually want is a live-in nanny. Economic hardship has pushed people to the far extreme that they don’t want a little bit of relief; they’re downright exhausted and want to give it all up.
I also think a lot of the wannabe tradwives actually want someone else to do the boring grunt work like dishes & diaper changing while they decorate pastries & make cute kids' crafts. I want to share chores/cooking with several other people, it's such a bother for just me & one other person. You shouldn't need to be in a nuclear family to have that.
A nuclear family wouldn’t have that anyway, either, since by definition a nuclear family is just 2 parents. What it sounds like you’re thinking of is communal living or at least neighborhoods or villages. No?